tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495344900090235486.post1095573130389302644..comments2024-01-16T01:02:09.136-08:00Comments on Thirukkural of Thiruvalluar (திருவள்ளுவரின் திருக்குறள்): 04. Jaina ideas in Kural: IIIAshraf, NVKhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03779269998397087165noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495344900090235486.post-69348210987540957382016-03-24T20:16:38.931-07:002016-03-24T20:16:38.931-07:00In the list of eight qualities Parimelazhagar has ...In the list of eight qualities Parimelazhagar has given, "Boundless grace" (பேரருளுடைமை) is worth looking at. No where in the Kural we see Valluvar describing god (or God) as பேரருளாளன். When Saiva work Thirumandiram says "எண்குணன்" (554), it is not a reference to any deity but to a human being who does not kill, lie, steal or drink. <br /><br /><br />எண்குணன் Ashraf, NVKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03779269998397087165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495344900090235486.post-13402020360601447372016-03-24T20:07:07.562-07:002016-03-24T20:07:07.562-07:00Kalan, your point that I have missed out Parimelaz...Kalan, your point that I have missed out Parimelazhagar's view of Kural 9 (எண் குணத்தான்) is not correct. Please refer to Section 5b of this essay (http://kural-of-valluvar.blogspot.in/2009/06/jaina-ideas-in-kural-part-5b.html), where under Heading "5.8. Who is the one with eight qualities?" I have clearly said.....<br /><br />(v) According to Parimel Azhagar, the most of well known of all Kuŗal commentators, eight qualities attributed to Siva are: Self existence, Pure essence, Innate wisdom, Self realized, Habitually detached, Boundless grace, Inexhaustible nature, Infinite blissfulness. Rajasigham (1987) provides his own list of eight attributes of Lord Siva that appear to have no scriptural basis from Saivism.Ashraf, NVKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03779269998397087165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495344900090235486.post-27819534532016463902016-03-09T04:20:56.078-08:002016-03-09T04:20:56.078-08:00Thanks. Interesting read but not very well resear...Thanks. Interesting read but not very well researched. The arguments against saiva orientation are easily refuted. It's strange that there is no mention of parimehl aZHagar, considered to be the most celebrated commentator of thirukkuRaL, stating that the description of God having 8 Natures in couplet 9, I think, is in accordance with saiva aagamaas, even with him being a vaiNavar. God is spoken of, which is padhi, humans and celestials are spoken of which pasu, the world is maayay, karma is blatant, and ignorance is spoken of referring to aaNavam so padhi, pasu and paasam is found throughout. Last verse speaks of worshiping the Foot that saves us from the great ocean of birth and death, which, if one studies basic sithaandham, will know refers to souls being merged with the Feet of God which is liberation in saivam. If I'm not mistaken, this description of liberation unique to sithaandham. That last couplet in the first chapter makes reference to paasam neekum and siva pehru, the two two fold process of liberation where maRayppu sathi/gangay ammay/neermagaL (Power of Obsuration), upon spiritual maturity of a soul becomes aruTchathi/ummay ammay/malaymagaL (Power of Grace) and removes the soul from the world, and transports it to sivaperumaan merging the soul with His Feet and thus, it becomes one together with Him. In this couplet itself, there is more than one reference to padhi pasu and paasam. Furthermore, with regards to thiruvaLLuvar's 'criticising' of God, we have Saints like sundharamoorthi naayanaar Who used the phrase 'yehy yem perumaan' -- does this mean that He, a Saiva Saint known as thampiraan thohZHan (Friend of the Master/God), is criticising God? If one goes into Saiva works, this form of reverence where a seeming disgrace or negative is hurled against God, is done out of Love and is thus accepted as worship. We find this playfulness among loved ones even in this world. The ideas in general Hinduism and saivam is fairly different. For example, the trinity of brahma, vishNu and rudhran is not considered to be a trinity of God, in sithaandham, but rather, considered to be souls put in such positions by God sivan, and which is common in every world structure meaning, as there are millions of worlds spoken of, the are millions of sets of trinities; there is also a distinction made between Sivan and rudhran of the trinity where rudhran only destroys but Sivan performs all 5 acts of creation, preservation, disolution, obscuration and liberation. Saivam thus considers the trinity and other celestials, not to be Gods or Forms of, but rather souls therefore, he does not bring God down to the level of people but rather, celestials and, in saiva tradition, Saints are considered superior to celestials. If we're going to say that thiruvaLLuvar 'cursed' God to be a beggar, guess what? This can also be reference to piTchaadhanaar, the 'Begger' Form of sivaperumaan. For His Devotees, sivan Himself has such sympathy that He will make Himself into a Begger, as with the case with sundharamoorthi naayanaar, the same Saint Who supposedly cussed at Sivan. This is off the cuff and I'm not even a saiva student. Imagine those who are can retaliate.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14847938568447209316noreply@blogger.com